Karl Stefanovic admits he took Today show audience for granted

Karl Stefanovic admits there were times during his first incarnation as co-host of  Today that he might have taken the show’s audience for granted. 

After almost 15 years at the helm there were days he did not want to come into work and by churning through a succession of presenters the Channel Nine breakfast program had probably ‘lost momentum’. 

Stefanovic acknowledges his Channel Seven rivals at Sunrise are still way out in front in the ratings but says Today is in a rebuilding stage and he is not focusing on audience numbers.

Less than four months after returning to the host’s chair, Stefanovic has revealed in an exclusive wide-ranging interview what he thinks went wrong with Today and how the same mistakes can be avoided.

Stefanovic challenged the theory his personal life had turned off female viewers and said he had never considered himself Today’s saviour.

Karl Stefanovic, who has returned to the hosting chair at Today, admits there were times during his first stint on the show he might have taken its audience for granted. He is pictured with wife Jasmine (nee Yarbrough)

David Koch and Samantha Armytage have won the breakfast television war for years. Stefanovic says he is not worried about ratings but Today’s numbers have been climbing as viewers tune in for news on COVID-19

Channel Nine sacked Stefanovic shortly after his ‘lavish’ second wedding in Mexico amid speculation women did not like him leaving his first wife for a younger woman. 

The 45-year-old had been married to journalist Cassandra Thorburn for 21 years and he has three children aged 13 to 20 with the 49-year-old.

The couple split in 2016 and in 2018 he married shoe designer Jasmine Yarbrough, now 36, and they are expecting their first child next month. 

Stefanovic said he had always had strong personal and professional relationships with women and could not understand the interest in the age gap between him and his wife.

‘Nine years is not a Rupert Murdoch kind of difference in age,’ he said, referring to the 89-year-old media mogul’s marriage to 63-year-old former model Jerry Hall.

Stefanovic did not think his private life was interesting and and just wanted to do his best at Today, which he said was attracting more viewers in the current lightning-fast COVID-19 news cycle.

He praised new on-air partner host Allison Langdon, comparing her to previous Today co-hosts Liz Hayes and Tracy Grimshaw, and confirmed he was not in contact with former ‘work wife’ Lisa Wilkinson.

Stefanovic said his opposite number at Sunrise, David Koch, had ‘changed the game’ in Australian television and deserved all the accolades he got for winning the breakfast ratings for so long.   

He would not criticise Koch’s on-air partner Sam Armytage who took off six weeks during the COVID-19 pandemic to fight a respiratory illness, saying that was ‘her prerogative’ and a matter for Channel Seven. 

Stefanovic, 45, met second wife Jasmine Yarbrough, 36, five months after he split from first wife Cassandra Thorburn. The couple is expecting their first child together next month

Stefanovic, 45, met second wife Jasmine Yarbrough, 36, five months after he split from first wife Cassandra Thorburn. The couple is expecting their first child together next month

Stefanovic has objected to the nine-year age gap between himself and wife Jasmine being commented upon. He says it is not like the 26-year difference between media mogul Rupert Murdoch, 89, and his 63-year-old wife Jerry Hall (both pictured)

Stefanovic has objected to the nine-year age gap between himself and wife Jasmine being commented upon. He says it is not like the 26-year difference between media mogul Rupert Murdoch, 89, and his 63-year-old wife Jerry Hall (both pictured)

Stefanovic also said he would like to be more like Piers Morgan, the outspoken Good Morning Britain breakfast TV host and Daily Mail columnist. 

‘I don’t think you can be dull these days and I don’t think you can be boring. Beige is no way to win people over.’

Stefanovic and Langdon went to air in January before the official ratings year had started and he was happy with how the show was performing.

‘It’s going really, really well,’ he said. ‘I think we’re really hitting our straps now. We’re only two months into the ratings year and I think we’re doing great.

‘We went to air early with the bushfires and to go into this virus, we just haven’t stopped. 

‘I’ve never covered a story that’s affected so many and connected so many people around the world. 

‘There’s never been a more important time to be doing the show. There’s never been a more important time to get the story right.

Stefanovic says his new on-air partner Allison Langdon is an 'out-and-out star'. The pair met 20 years ago when she was a news producer and he was a young reporter

Stefanovic says his new on-air partner Allison Langdon is an ‘out-and-out star’. The pair met 20 years ago when she was a news producer and he was a young reporter

Langdon is the mother of two young children including son Mack (pictured) with husband Michael Willesee jnr. ‘She’s got poise, she’s got grace, she’s a hell of a journo,’ Stefanovic says

‘It’s a bizarre, strange, crazy time and to be reporting on it I think comes with enormous responsibility.’

Stefanovic and Langdon’s debut on January 4 drew 231,000 viewers in the five metro city market, compared with 312,000 on Sunrise.

On March 23 the two breakfast programs both drew their best audience numbers in three years with Sunrise on 379,000 city viewers and Today on 314,000.

Stefanovic said he was never going to be a one-man cure for Today’s ratings problems and breakfast television was always a team project.  

‘I think when I came back there was a lot of expectation and I think some may have been thinking, ah well, if he doesn’t get the ratings back it’s all over again.

‘But there’s no one person who can make a morning show work. It’s a pure team effort that makes a show work.

Stefanovic is not in contact with former co-host Lisa Wilkinson but says there is no particular reason for that. He is pictured holding the train of her dress at the 2015 Logies

Stefanovic is not in contact with former co-host Lisa Wilkinson but says there is no particular reason for that. He is pictured holding the train of her dress at the 2015 Logies 

Deb Knight (left) and Georgie Gardner (right) were Today's first female pair of hosts in 2019. The combination did not work and they were replaced by Stefanovic and Langdon

Deb Knight (left) and Georgie Gardner (right) were Today’s first female pair of hosts in 2019. The combination did not work and they were replaced by Stefanovic and Langdon

‘I’ve never ever expected that the ratings would rise or fall all based on me and never will. 

‘I think it’s all about how the team interacts, it’s about the chemistry, it’s about production, it’s about a whole bunch of elements that make a show.

‘It feels like we’re getting everything right so it’s a joy to come in and present every day.’

It had not always been a joy for Stefanovic to come into work during the last years of his first long stint hosting the program.  

‘There were times when it was difficult to come into the Today show and present it and there were times that I didn’t want to,’ he said. 

‘There were times when I couldn’t imagine anything better than getting off [set]. 

‘When you do 15 years of a show you’re going to have your ups and downs but for me now I couldn’t imagine a better place to be. There’s a terrific on-air team.’

Stefanovic has known his latest co-host Langdon for almost 20 years, since she was a young producer and he was a young on-the-road reporter.

‘I think she’s an out-and-out star,’ he said of the 40-year-old. ‘She’s got poise, she’s got grace, she’s a hell of a journo.

‘She comes incredibly well prepared, much in the way Tracy did. She has no real outside distractions.’

'I think that she's gone on to do some wonderful things where she is and I wish her all the best,' says of his former co-host Lisa Wilkinson who now presents for The Project

‘I think that she’s gone on to do some wonderful things where she is and I wish her all the best,’ says of his former co-host Lisa Wilkinson who now presents for The Project

Stefanovic did not directly refer to his former co-host Wilkinson when praising Langdon’s single-mindedness when it came to Today but the comparison was obvious. 

Wilkinson had multiple commercial arrangements outside her work on Today, including with the Huffington Post and fronting an advertising campaign for Nutra-Life Kyolic Aged Garlic.

‘She doesn’t go and do appearances,’ he said of Langdon. ‘She doesn’t take outside earnings, she’s just straight down the line into the job.

‘I think she’ll be in the mould of Tracy and Liz Hayes and the way that they approach the game.

‘Lisa was there for ten years and I think Ally’s going to be there for as long as she wants to be there.’

Stefanovic is not in contact with 60-year-old Wilkinson, left Today in October 2017 for Channel 10’s The Project amid a contract dispute. 

‘Not for any other reason than we both live separate lives,’ Stefanovic said. 

'I'm not going to sit back and bag David Koch and Sam Armytage,' Stefanvoic says. 'They’ve been consistently number one for a long time and I think he is a huge part of that'

‘I’m not going to sit back and bag David Koch and Sam Armytage,’ Stefanvoic says. ‘They’ve been consistently number one for a long time and I think he is a huge part of that’

‘A couple of times we’ve texted. We’ve just missed each other. I’ll always look back really fondly at my time with her.

‘I think that she’s gone on to do some wonderful things where she is and I wish her all the best.’ 

Wilkinson was replaced at Today by newsreader Georgie Gardner, who sat alongside Stefanovic throughout 2018, but that partnership never gelled.  

Stefanovic and Langdon were joined this year by newsreader Tracy Vo, who replaced Tom Steinfort, and sports presenter Alex Cullen who took over from Tony Jones.

[Vo has since left the program to return to Perth and look after her elderly parents during the COVID-19 crisis. Cullen is now reading the news]. 

‘I mean, Ally is just wonderful and Alex is a delight to work with but we’ve got a genuine affection for reach other behind the scenes as well.’

‘Everyone’s on the same page about delivering for our viewers and we’ve got to try and be consistent with that.’ 

Stefanovic acknowledged Today’s regular line-up changes in recent years had probably put viewers off. Koch had been at Sunrise since 2002 and Armytage took over from Melissa Doyle in 2013. 

‘I think when you have huge changes like we did over the last couple of years that’s hard for the audience to continue having faith, so we may have lost their confidence a little bit,’ Stefanovic said.

Stefanovic was married to journalist Cassandra Thorburn for 21 years. The couple split in 2016 and share custody of three children aged 13 to 20. They are pictured at the 2011 Logies

Stefanovic was married to journalist Cassandra Thorburn for 21 years. The couple split in 2016 and share custody of three children aged 13 to 20. They are pictured at the 2011 Logies

‘We certainly may have lost momentum there but that’s through no one’s fault – it’s just they way it went.

‘We’ve got to do everything we can to rebuild it and I think working hard is the perfect way to start with that.

‘You work hard, try and deliver, everyone’s on the same page, do your work and have fun. The audience will see that and hopefully grow.’

Stefanovic, who won a Gold Logie in 2011, does not worry about what Today’s main competitor is doing and has not watched Sunrise for the past 15 years.  

‘We can’t do anything about Sunrise or any of the competitors,’ he said. ‘We’ve got to be on our path and we’ve got to try and build our own audience.

‘That’s why it doesn’t worry me what they rate. As long as we’re heading in the right direction that’s the perfect result for me. 

‘Are we getting more viewers? The answer is yes, and that’s during a big story. 

‘If people didn’t like us they wouldn’t have even tuned in with this big story, so the fact that they’re responding to how we’re covering it is really important for us.’

Stefanovic took over the male hosting role on Today in 2005 from television great Steve Liebmann. The pair is pictured together

Stefanovic took over the male hosting role on Today in 2005 from television great Steve Liebmann. The pair is pictured together

Stefanovic could not predict if or when Today would beat Sunrise again. 

‘We did it one year, Lisa and I, and it took a great deal of effort. It’s a whole team effort and their team effort in the last couple of years I think has been largely better.

‘So good luck to them and all of that and we’re just trying to make our little old show a lot better so that we can compete and maybe one day we’ll get back there but that’s not a focus.

‘If you do your job, if you enjoy it, if you’ve got chemistry, if you have some fun, and the audience trusts you for a whole bunch of things including news but also companionship then you can hopefully one day have a larger audience.

‘But whether or not you become number one is very difficult and that’s why I will always dip my lid to them and say well done.’

Stefanovic said while he was happy Today’s audience was picking up there would never be a time to relax. 

Stefanovic won a Gold Logie in 2011 during his first long stint hosting Channel Nine's Today show. He is unsure if or when Today can overtake the Sunrise juggernaut

Stefanovic won a Gold Logie in 2011 during his first long stint hosting Channel Nine’s Today show. He is unsure if or when Today can overtake the Sunrise juggernaut 

‘We’ve got to keep going, you can’t take any of that for granted,’ he said. ‘Maybe a few years ago I might have taken that audience for granted. 

‘But now I know how hard it is to get them and how hard it is to keep them so for me it’s about trying to solidify what we do and try and get more of them to watch and to come back.’

Stefanovic reflected on what went wrong towards the end of his first stint on Today and still did not have all the answers. 

He is not convinced by claims his divorce and new relationship lost him a whole chunk of the show’s audience – the much-desired ‘female demographic’.

‘It was written about and it was talked about and I don’t know the answer to it because I only ever had great relationships with people of both sexes,’ he said.

‘There were some women who I guess thought I wasn’t with my wife any more so there was speculation that I lost them and there was the “you’ve hooked up with someone who is so young”.

'She's done years and years on 60 Minutes and so working with her is very easy,' Stefanovic says of Ally Langdon. 'She brings that kind of gravitas to it. I think the world of her'

‘She’s done years and years on 60 Minutes and so working with her is very easy,’ Stefanovic says of Ally Langdon. ‘She brings that kind of gravitas to it. I think the world of her’

‘To me that was sort of hard. But you can’t do anything about perception.’ 

As well as his wife Jasmine, daughter Ava, and sister Elisa, he has sisters-in-law Sylvia Jeffreys and Jenna Dinicola in his life, and is particularly close to his mother Jenny. 

‘I think there are enough great women in my life,’ Stefanovic said. ‘There are enough beautiful women that have stayed with me who wouldn’t allow me to treat women in a bad way, and that’s all you can focus on.

‘I’ve got more women in my house than men and let me tell you they’re women who are formidable and intelligent and if they didn’t like being around me they wouldn’t be.’ 

The attention on his split from Thorburn also still baffled Stefanovic when one in three first marriages in Australia ended in divorce. 

‘I can’t battle the perception that this was somehow different,’ he said. ‘I don’t know why but for whatever reason people got hold of it and they went with it and I can’t do anything about it.

‘I can’t control it is what I’m saying and I can’t control fixing it. I’ve just got to be who I am and get on with it. 

‘It was hard to deal with thinking that I’d lost a particular audience and I think that maybe I let it get to me too much.

‘I should have just got on with it a little bit better, more efficiently.

‘I always think that no matter what’s going on there are plenty of TV hosts who have got divorced who they haven’t said that about.

Allison Langdon is pictured with husband Michael Willesee jnr, their daughter Scout and son Mack. 'She's a great mum, she has to handle all those things and juggle those things at home, and I really admire her and respect her,' says Stefanovic

Allison Langdon is pictured with husband Michael Willesee jnr, their daughter Scout and son Mack. ‘She’s a great mum, she has to handle all those things and juggle those things at home, and I really admire her and respect her,’ says Stefanovic

It had been noted Stefanovic was directly addressing the audience more often with his own opinions about what was happening in the news.

‘I think there was a time when I was editorialising even a bit more,’ he said. 

‘But I think that I’m making calls about things based on facts and based on evidence, based on what people are saying and COVID’s been a really important one for that.

‘I just think that’s so vital now. There’s never been a more important time for journalism and for getting journalism right. 

‘The game might be changing and the audience may be splintered but there’s an incredible responsibility now to get what we do right.’ 

Stefanovic said his work did not end when Today finished at 9.00am. 

‘The show doesn’t end when the show ends,’ he said. ‘I’m always talking to politicians and I’m talking to decision makers at home and I’m trying to line things up for the next day.’

Stefanovic realised whether viewers tune in to watch Today was ultimately out of his control.  

‘The audience is everything,’ he said. The public is everything. They’re the ones who ultimately decide, who have the power. 

'If they don't want to watch me then I'll have to do something else,' Stefanovic says of his role hosting Today. 'And if they do want to watch me I can only be myself'

‘If they don’t want to watch me then I’ll have to do something else,’ Stefanovic says of his role hosting Today. ‘And if they do want to watch me I can only be myself’

‘They decide what they want to watch and whether they want to watch you or not.

‘If they don’t want to watch me then I’ll have to do something else. And if they do want to watch me I can only be myself.

‘So for me ultimately that’s what you’ve got to be. If you’re not yourself you’ll try to be someone else and you’ll eventually be found out for being a fraud.

‘And the one thing I’m not is someone else. I am who I am. It’s really important.’

Stefanovic said there were times in the past few years when he lost that ‘sense of self’. 

‘But now I’m back and I am truly feeling better about myself and wanting to do whatever I can for the public and for the viewers within my capacity and just give them a good time as well as inform them.’

For now, Stefanovic is not looking too far ahead but and hoped to be fronting Today for the next decade. 

‘You don’t know what’s going to happen in the future,’ he said.  

‘I know that I’m good at my job so wherever I work and whatever I do in the future – hopefully it’s at the Today show for the next ten years – I’ll be causing people in power problems and giving people a good time at home for as long as I can.’

'Kochie changed the game and made it different and obviously it worked for them so he has noting but respect from me,' says Stefanovic of the Sunrise host

‘Kochie changed the game and made it different and obviously it worked for them so he has noting but respect from me,’ says Stefanovic of the Sunrise host

KARL ON DAVID KOCH

Stefanovic admired 64-year-old David Koch who has been co-host of Sunrise since 2002 for his success and longevity. 

‘I’m not going to sit back and bag David Koch and Sam Armytage,’ he said. ‘They’ve been consistently number one for a long time and I think he is a huge part of that.

‘He’s to be greatly admired in the history of Australian television, the way that he changed the game.

‘Kochie changed the game and made it different and obviously it worked for them so he has noting but respect from me.

‘I’m not going to sit here and say I’m better than him when clearly we’re just different.

‘When someone’s been number one for that long they deserve all the accolades and all the applause that they get. I mean it doesn’t happen by accident.’

'If Sam thinks that she was in any way compromised you've got to make those decisions for yourself,' Stefanovic says of Sam Armytage's decision to take time off work

‘If Sam thinks that she was in any way compromised you’ve got to make those decisions for yourself,’ Stefanovic says of Sam Armytage’s decision to take time off work

KARL ON SAM ARMYTAGE

Sunrise host Sam Armytage took six weeks off to recover from a respiratory infection during the COVID-19 crisis. On Monday she finally rejoined Koch on air.

‘If Sam thinks that she was in any way compromised you’ve got to make those decisions for yourself,’ Stefanovic said of the 43-year-old.

‘I don’t think competition should ever enter that. That’s her prerogative.

‘That’s Seven’s lot to deal with and if they deem that’s the appropriate thing then good luck to them.

‘A lot of personal decisions have been made like that and they’re open to some level of criticism if you want to go there but for me it’s do whatever you need to do to get through.

‘It’s not a time for petty competitiveness. It’s not a time for petty comparisons.

‘It’s a time for getting trough the best way that they can.’

'She's straight down the line,' Stefanovic says of Ally Langdon. 'She's not motivated by any particular political agenda, she gives everyone a fair hearing'

‘She’s straight down the line,’ Stefanovic says of Ally Langdon. ‘She’s not motivated by any particular political agenda, she gives everyone a fair hearing’

 KARL ON ALLISON LANGDON

Stefanovic is loving his new on-air partnership with Allison Langdon, who came to Today after years as a 60 Minutes reporter.

‘She’s done years and years on 60 Minutes and so working with her is very easy. She brings that kind of gravitas to it. I think the world of her. 

‘She’s straight down the line. She’s not motivated by any particular political agenda, she gives everyone a fair hearing. 

‘She’s always been fun as well as super energetic about news but she’s a ball of energy and she’s incredibly keen and devoted to producing the best product possible for people at home. 

‘She’s a great mum, she has to handle all those things and juggle those things at home, and I really admire her and respect her. And also she’s great fun.

‘I think the world is her oyster.’

'She's such an awesome person and a great newsreader but we just wish her all the very best,' Stefanovic says of newsreader Tracy Vo

‘She’s such an awesome person and a great newsreader but we just wish her all the very best,’ Stefanovic says of newsreader Tracy Vo

KARL ON TRACY VO

Newsreader Tracy Vo left Today earlier this month to be closer to her parents in Western Australia during the coronavirus pandemic.

‘She was only going to be here for six months to a year anyway,’ Stefanovic said.

‘She’s such a family girl and when she said she was really worried about COVID and her father everyone said just go now.

‘There was certainly nothing sinister. We would have had Tracy for the next ten years if we could.

‘She’s such an awesome person and a great newsreader but we just wish her all the very best.

‘You want your team to be the same and you want your team to be consistent but it is what it is.

‘It’s not perfect but at times like these there are more important things than keeping the same people doing the show.’

‘To have ten years together in any job is a long long time especially in breakfast TV,’ Stefanovic says of Lisa Wilkinson

KARL ON LISA WILKINSON

Stefanovic is not in contact with Lisa Wilkinson, who left Today amid a contractual dispute and now co-hosts Channel 10’s The Project.

‘She deiced to end it and I think it brought to an end a really successful relationship and we should only view that as a positive,’ he said. 

‘To have ten years together in any job is a long long time especially in breakfast TV.

‘Boy, we gave it a massive crack and we brought it from nothing so for me it’s a very positive thing to look back on.’

‘We truly had some wonderful times on air and she also taught me an awful lot about the stuff outside of interviews in a broadcast.

‘By that I mean having a conversation with the viewers and that was her deep skill, just being able to sit and to talk and to laugh.

‘That’s the most difficult part of the job. People say it’s the interviewing and that sort of stuff but that’s not it. 

‘It’s the bits in between the serious things and light things that grease the wheel and make you a very good broadcaster or not and she had all that stuff in spades.’

'I think Piers Morgan is a great broadcaster,' Stefanovic says. 'He's probably more alienating than I am these days'

‘I think Piers Morgan is a great broadcaster,’ Stefanovic says. ‘He’s probably more alienating than I am these days’

KARL ON PIERS MORGAN 

Stefanovice has said he would like to be more like old Piers Morgan, the 55-year-old Good Morning Britain breakfast TV host and Daily Mail columnist.

‘I think Piers Morgan is a great broadcaster,’ Stefanovic said. ‘He’s probably more alienating than I am these days.

‘I think I’m a little calmer but I do admire him for his energy. He doesn’t just go home, he goes home and he smashes Twitter and he’s doing articles.

‘I don’t have mental energy to continue to fight at home but I do it in my own way.

‘I do greatly admire his spunk and I think that if I had the energy maybe I’d try and be a bit more like him.

‘But I think there’s plenty of good in what he does and I like also that he makes people think. 

‘He is just who he is and it’s very hard to be who you are, and I am who I am.’

A HISTORY OF TODAY v SUNRISE 

Karl Stefanovic took over the male host’s job at Today from Steve Liebmann in 2005, and in 2007 Lisa Wilkinson replaced Jessica Rowe who had a brief stint after Tracy Grimshaw.

Wilkinson left at the end of 2017 and was replaced by newsreader Georgie Gardner. 

At Sunrise, David Koch has been at the desk since 2002 and Mel Doyle was dropped for Samantha Armytage in 2013. She is still in the chair.

For most of the time Stefanovic was at the helm of Today it trailed Sunrise but on Good Friday in 2009 beat its competitor for the first time in five years. 

Today beat Sunrise overall for 2016, lost in 2017 and in 2018 ratings slid further with the Stefanovic-Gardner partnership until Stefanovic was shown the door.

Stefanovic’s departure was blamed on negative publicity arising from his divorce from wife of 21 years, Cassandra Thorburn, and subsequent marriage to shoe designer Jasmine Yarbrough.

After Stefanovic was axed, Today’s ratings slipped even further when the program was hosted by Deb Knight and Gardner in 2019.

Under that pairing Today hit a historic low of 143,000 viewers last October. 

Stefanovic got his job back, this time sitting alongside Allison Langdon, at the start of this year. 

Ratings figures for all breakfast shows have been rising during the COVID-19 crisis but Today is still significantly behind Sunrise. 

Stefanovic and Langdon’s debut on January 4 drew 231,000 viewers in the five-metro city market, compared with 312,000 on Sunrise.

On February 18 the Channel Nine show had 173,000 viewers, with 272,000 people tuning into Sunrise.

Later that month Channel Nine’s head of news and current affairs, Darren Wick, told The Australian he was not worried about Today’s future. 

‘Karl and Ally are absolutely the right team,’ he told the newspaper. ‘The chemistry is right and they’re in a good headspace.’

‘Hand on heart, I’m not bothered by the ratings.’

On March 23 the two breakfast programs both drew their best audience numbers in three years with Sunrise on 379,000 city viewers and Today on 314,000.

Those audiences are much bigger when looked at on a nationwide basis. On April 17 the national figure for Sunrise was 1.252million with Today on 906,000.